Amish Children and the English Language
I understand that most Amish speak a dialect of German in their homes. Kevin, is that true of the Eicher home. Do they speak only German, or is it a mixture. My question regarding the children is: If they speak only, or even mostly, German in the home, what happens when these little children start public schools. Do they take "English as a second language" classes? Or are they raised bilingual and therefore proficient enough in English that they have no problems understanding in school? It seems that if they are hearing mostly German at home, they associate mostly with other Amish who are speaking German, they would have some difficulties in school. Kevin, what about the Eicher children. Do the little ones (Kevin and Lovina, I believe) speak English well?
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Mommyoftwo, I did not know that about the Amish gentleman from the Country Variety Store! That would explain why he does not have a German accent. I've had many conversations with him, but he had never mentioned being a convert. Interesting! I've heard him mention before about living in North or South Carolina at one time. I'll bet you live close to the Amish schools on state route 235 and the one out on CR 96 then? There is also some kind of wood shop (furniture?) out on 96, also. I see their bikes parked outside when we drive past. We camp at the state park in Lakeview and always make a trip to Country Variety Store in Bellefontaine to buy cookies.
Re: Amish Children and the English Language
As to schooling I think Holmes County area might be an exception to other Amish areas.
Even way back to 1994, with Donald Kraybill book - The Amish Struggle with Modernity ( which has to deal with the 4 different orders in Holmes County) he quotes a minster who estimates that about 75% of new order children and perhaps 20% of Old Order children attend public schools and that very few Swartzentrubers do.
Then in a 2004 article at Amish-Heartland http://www.amish-heartland.com/amish/article/1935691 It states that "Growing numbers of Amish teens are seeking education beyond the traditional eighth-grade limit, and many of them, having attended public schools in Holmes County, are already familiar with computers. The East Holmes school district sponsors an adult technology class that has become popular with Amish young people"
The Amish here in the Thumb of Michigan as I have observed all go to one room Amish schools - but then again 95% of the Amish here farm as compared to Holmes County where alot less farm and more rely on Tourism and outside work.
As with early frontier folks during the 1800's so it seems to be with Amish in todays modern world - the more rural they are the more likely the children will be one room schooled by their own peers or homeschooled by parents and grandparents...
Just my opinion...
P.S. The Amish also here in my part when I talk to them always sound Canadian to me... LOL
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Tom,
I think your assessment is accurate. You'll see very different "accimlation to technology" in populated areas like Holmes County vs. the thumb of Michigan....
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I live in an area that has a lot of the Old Order Amish. One of my Amish friends explained to me that they learn German one day a week. This family speaks both languages.
Schools around here are one room school houses and the children do not go to public school.
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I would say that nearly all the Amish I know have a "Dutchy" accent, but not really a heavy German one.
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That's one thing I could never figure out about the Amish gentleman who runs the Country Variety Store in Bellefontaine, OH. He has absolutely no German accent at all, which surprises me. Any Amish people I have spoken to before have had a thick German accent which makes them hard (for me, anyway) to understand.
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The Amish gentleman that runs the Country Variety Store in Bellefontaine is a convert to the Amish way of life. We had a conversation not too long ago about his coming here many years ago to join the group here in Logan County. I live just 2 miles from two one room Amish schools, and the Amish here are farmers and they are super friendly and very interesting to talk to.
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Mommyoftwo, Diann posted a response to this, but it appears way above, sometimes the "reply" function on this site can take some getting used to! Anyway, this is interesting, did he say what he converted from? Mennonite? Or some other completely unrelated religion?
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It's the same with the Mennonites up here. They speak low German, English, and High German. Any that I've met speak English just as well as any one of us. The only difference is they still have fairly strong German accents. Something I always find amusing, since they've been in Canada/US since the mid 1800's :)
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Kevin, when you say parochial, does that mean Catholic? I attended Catholic schools all through school, and it was considered a parochial school. Somehow, I can't see Amish children attending Catholic schools.
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Many Lutheran churches have parochial schools, and I think I've seen a few "Bible schools" from various denominations also...
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That confused me for a while too - it just means a school of the parish, it's not associated with any particular religious group.
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Precisely, KJune...I too went to Catholic parochial schools, but any religion can operate a parochial school.....
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Amish and Mennonite children are really tri-lingual. They learn the plattdeutsch which is the common vernacular language first , then English, then in about 4th grade they learn hoch Deutsch (or high German) in school. The German is learned in order to read the Luther Bible and to understand what is being said in Church. It is not spoken around the house. They would not be worried, chukibabee, about public school since nearly every Amish child ( except for minor exceptions) attend their own parochial schools. English is very important to know because of the dealings they have with the "English" of the world around them.
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I think the poster's comments may apply in certain communities. I would definitely not say that Amish children going to public school constitute a "minor exception." Indeed the trend is going towards parochial schools, however, there are plenty of rural public schools where the population is majority Amish. So I would respectfully dispute some of this poster's information....
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You know it really bugs me when someone adds a comment, like this and doesn't include where they know the information from. It would make the information a little more believable if it were cited.
From the Rod and Staff catalogue, there is an English/German Bible which contains side by side translations- The English King James Version and the German Luther Translation.
Yes, IF the children attend an Amish they might learn as you state, but it's been mentioned many times that Lovina's children attend public school, with the exception of Elizabeth finishing up as a homeschooler.
Chukibabee; the language thing is a huge problem here in the city. A friend of mine was working in the office of a government school, that the students spoke 23 languages. If it was just a few Deutch speaking Amish children it wouldn't be a big deal, but 23 languages, most of which my friend had never even heard of before!!
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I am not sure why my comments were difficult to believe without citing a scholarly source , but the Young Center for Anabaptist and Pietist Studies at Elizabethtown College should have more credibility than me. According to them, "Where do Amish youth go to school?
A: About 90 percent attend one- or two-room private Amish schools; the others go to rural public school and "Today a few Amish children in some states still attend rural public schools, but the vast majority goes to one- or two-room schools operated by Amish parents. A local board of three to five fathers organizes the school, hires a teacher, approves the curriculum, oversees the budget, and supervises maintenance."I would say that 90 % is a majority, wouldn't you? Anyhow, most of this information is readily available in books and through internet sites. A good start would be with John Hostetler's Amish Society or Donald Kraybill's, " THe Riddle of Amish Culture." Also, if people are really interested in learning about the Amish, they should subscribe to Die Botschaft or the Budget newspapers. If you read these papers regularly then you get a good insight into the life of plain peoples. Or find a Mennonite pen pal and get yourself invited to their homes and to their church. This is the best way to consider yourself knowledgeable about their life.
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Thanks for the cite.
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Wow, that is interesting. I just never would have pegged the percentage at 90 percent. That certain is a shift that has occured markedly since the 1972 Supreme Court Case, Yoder vs. Wisconsin. And there certainly are at least some settlements where the ratio is much less than 90 percent. However, if you take very large Amish communities (like Lancaster County) where hardly any children go to public school, then that would fatten up the ratio. And, yes, those books, the Budget, Die Botschaft, those are all great sources. I highly recommend them. Another favorite of mine is Steven Nolt's "History of the Amish."
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Another interesting thing is that after the Supreme Court decision, the communities began to buy up the one room school houses that the districts were getting rid of. Some of the schools, like Wide Hollow in PA, are more than 100 years old. A teacher friend of mine told me that non- Amish or Mennonite people in the community had been asking them if they could enroll their children in these little schools. Evidently they are tired of the kind of education offered by the public school. My friend told me that they brought the request to the elders of their church and school board members, and it was decided against. The reason being that they were afraid, despite the earnestness of the locals, to have the influence of worldly things creep into their own children's lives. Also, they felt that eventually those other parents would not want the German aspect of the curriculum and it was best to just not open a can of worms so to speak.
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Sounds like several sets of parents might be homeschooling in PA then!
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I think homeschooling is a great option if you live in a state that recognizes it and awards graduates a state diploma. Pennsylvania is one of those states. Several of my friends are homeschooling parents , but our state, NY, does not bestow state diplomas on graduates. Many of the children are going to community colleges where they take a blended program that was originally designed for drop outs. In this program, the children get a diploma and at the same time matriculate into the college curriculum. But it seems ridiculous since the homeschoolers do so well generally. The teacher's union in NYS is very powerful , and homeschooling is not encouraged.
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KJB, I agree with you . Facts,please! You have to wonder if people are legitimate without documentation(especially in topics like this).
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I thought Lovin's children attended public school. Kevin, do you have any data on the percentage of Amish that have their own schools, vs those that send their children to public schools (or home school)?
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I missed this discussion today:) You know, I don't have a percentage...it just depends on the settlement. There are some areas where MOST Amish kids attend public schools, there are other areas where most don't. Nationally, an educated guess, might be that 2/3 attend parochial, 1/3 public...
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Around this area of Western Ky. All of the Amish and Menonite groups have their own schools. I know of only 3 Amish Children that have attended public schools in the Christian County School system. Then they were Special Needs children and did go to the public schools until they reached the age of 14. I drove special needs bus and had two of them on my bus. Karen
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Rod & Staff has a Mennonite school on the property, over there in Crockett, in the eastern hills of your beautiful state. What do you know about the Amish that are just northwestern-ish of the Mammoth Caves area?
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I've actually been researching this subject a bit currently. In most (as always, I KNOW there are exceptions) cases the Amish will speak a dialect of German amongst themselves. Exceptions to this include the Amish around Berne-Grabill, Indiana and Seymour, Missouri where they tend to speak a dialect known as "Bernese Swiss." All of these are Germanic languages. In Lovina's home, and most other Amish ones, the children are taught German or Swiss as their first language. They learn this language first and then are taught English. Lovina's little ones, Kevin, for instance can speak fluent German but not English - yet. He'll be taught that as he gets closer to school age. Most Amish I have met - even the most ultra-conservative ones -are proficient in English, they really have to be in today's world.
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Where I live in the northern part of NY, the Amish are mostly Swartzentruber's, the children I have interacted with all speak english very well, and I am pretty sure they were preschoolers, or prescholars, whatever they would be called.....
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